turtledovefandomcom-20200216-history
Talk:Varina Davis
Varina--Dangerous name, that. Well, between her and Cleburne, we've officially and undeniably got our eight hundred historical figures. Who brought the party hats and noise makers? Turtle Fan 22:00, June 14, 2010 (UTC) :Hooah! I lift my brewsky in salute. :Incidentally, as I recall, one of Lee's daughter's took over the function of hostess. Do we have "Confederate First Ladies" yet? Wouldn't she fit (once an article on her is done)? ML4E 02:20, June 17, 2010 (UTC) ::It would just be her and Varina. None of the POTCS in 191 have their wives named. Since Longstreet married Louise Garland long before the POD, and she was still alive and married to him in 1881 in OTL, it's probably a fairly safe assumption that she was FLOTCS. But she doesn't appear in HFR so that doesn't help us any. ::Unfortunately, categories for most Confederate offices just don't have legs to stand on. Turtle Fan 03:15, June 17, 2010 (UTC) :::Mary Custis Lee would also fit. Her term lasted 20 minutes, but she'd count. However, I think the non-existant growth potential TF argues trumps at this point. TR 03:36, June 17, 2010 (UTC) ::::Is that how it works? Now that you mention it I've got no idea what formal installation if any a first lady has to go through. Turtle Fan 05:10, June 17, 2010 (UTC) :::::I...think so. Actually, I don't know either. I just assumed that once the POTUS (or in this case POTCS) is sworn in, his spouse is now first lady more or less automatically. TR 05:23, June 17, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Well official Washington does love to stand on ceremony at times like that, and no role in Washington is more ceremonial than First Lady. Maybe Sergeant-at-Arms. We can no doubt assume the Rebs would be using the same procedures and be afflicted with the same fondness for formality, especially so soon after the split. ::::::The First Lady is chosen by the President, though you'd only notice when he's a bachelor or a widower (or, in Clinton's case, when his wife has been disqualified from the job). Naturally, the advice and consent of the Senate is not needed. I would assume he calls someone in the White House's protocol office and says "So-and-so is First Lady, effective immediately." I would also assume it's one of the first things he does after the inauguration ceremony ends, so that they can enjoy the afternoon's and evening's festivities with everything in place. I really don't know, though. Turtle Fan 05:49, June 17, 2010 (UTC) Varina Davis is listed in the Members of the US Whig Party category. I think this is a goof, since women weren't allowed to be in politics when the Whigs were in business.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 04:45, October 29, 2015 (UTC) :They weren't allowed to vote, but women most emphatically played roles in politics and had party affiliations. TR (talk) 04:56, October 29, 2015 (UTC) Were women's party affiliations recognized on paper?JonathanMarkoff (talk) 05:01, October 29, 2015 (UTC) :In many instances, yes. TR (talk) 05:12, October 29, 2015 (UTC) Those crazy, illogical, hypocritical 19th century people. Insert HL Mencken quote here.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 05:25, October 29, 2015 (UTC) You know what I've always wondered? Given the close (though according to at least one historian I've spoken to, purely pragmatic) alliance between the women's movement and the abolitionists, what was an Antebellum woman to do if she wanted an increased political role for her sex and happened to be pro-slavery? Or, as in Varina's case, at least economically dependent on the institution? Turtle Fan (talk) 11:04, October 29, 2015 (UTC) :Place greater emphasis on the importance of white women becoming equal, I imagine. Can't say for sure, but that follows a depressing pattern in our species' history. TR (talk) 15:19, October 29, 2015 (UTC) ::It does, and in the final push for the Twentieth Amendment, many suffragists made appeals to privileged men on racist, nativist, and sectarian grounds. In the nineteenth century, however, the women's movement was so closely associated with abolition that I'm hard-pressed to come up with a way for a woman to be able to push for the one while spurning the other. Turtle Fan (talk) 21:13, October 29, 2015 (UTC)